Miguel Sanchez 0:00

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the First Gen 101 Podcast. Today, we have an amazing episode, and please welcome Dr. Ciera Graham. Dr. Graham, thank you for being here today.

Dr. Graham 0:12

Very excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Miguel Sanchez 0:15

Before we started recording, I was telling Dr. Graham how excited I am about this episode because in previous episodes we talked about the first-gen experience in college and graduate school, but then what happens after, right? Once you start working, the learning and the learning curve is still there. And so I, I do feel that first-gen professionals will find this episode very informative because there's a lot of wisdom that will be shared here about professional development, and I think that's a, that's the next step for many of us. So I'm looking forward to the learning experience. And so before we start, Dr. Graham, can you please introduce yourself and tell our listeners a little about who you are?

Dr. Graham 0:58

Yeah. Thank you. So I always like to start introductions with just naming my identities. so first-gen graduate. I'm also the eldest daughter. I come from a working class family. my mom was a cashier at a neighborhood grocery store, and then my dad was a machinist. and then I also identify as a Black female, and these identities are really just core to the work that I do. Growing up in a working class family, and I know, a lot of the first-gen, listeners may be able to relate to this, but education was always central, to my upbringing and the conversations that I had in my family, even though, neither of my parents had a bachelor's degree. And, I think growing up there was always pressure to do more and be more- than your parents. so education and learning has really influenced every aspect of my childhood, and my parents really instilled in me the importance of just learning and being curious, asking questions. so just really quickly, I have about 13 years of experience in higher education. when I started college I didn't know what being a higher education administrator meant. But I was highly involved in student clubs, everything from Black student union, to a lot of the first generation, college student supports. I'm also a proud TRIO student, which is a very important, program that's funded at the federal level. I participated in student, support services, as well as the Ronald E., McNair program, which is focused on preparing first-gen students for, graduate studies. I've taken an interest in student involvement and engagement, and I've really, devoted my entire career to just supporting and helping other students enroll in college as well as persist, And a lot of the focus of my work has been, how do I create culturally responsive programs and services for students who are most in need? first generation students are, included in that. so I've been an associate director, I've been a director, of student services. most recently I was a dean. I've managed teams as small as, four and as large as 40. I finished my PhD at the age of 29, and then I became a dean- Impressive the age of 37. so I've just, my whole, career so far has been devoted to really helping students who are often the first, the first in their family to graduate college. You could be the first of your particular identity to assume a role at an organization. and then the last thing I mention, I'll mention is, I'm also a business owner. so in 2020, I decided to start a business, Dr. C Graham Consulting, which is focused on providing, career coaching and services to millennials and Gen Z-ers, and really just helping support, them defining their skills, defining sort of their job search strategy. how do we tell effective stories, on paper and in person. and the goal is ultimately, to secure a job of their dreams. So that's just a little bit about me.

Miguel Sanchez 4:01

Let's unpack that for a moment. So after you left off to college, how was your first gen experience in college? Was it something you totally unexpected? What were some of the, challenges during your time as a first, generation college student?

Dr. Graham 4:19

Yeah. this is a really great question. so I will say, I had language, for what it meant to be the first in my family to go to college- at the start of my senior year. Some students, they go to college and they still don't know what it means to be- the first in their family to go to college. I had that language at the start of my senior year in high school. and that was only because the college that I went to, there was a scholarship for first gen students that I ended up receiving. and as part of the scholarship program, we actually had the opportunity to visit the campus, as soon as we were awarded- the scholarship. we got to connect with other students who were also first gen. We got to meet professors, got to tour the campus, get a day in the life of a college student. and that sort of cemented, okay, there's a community here of people who have the same experience like you do, and we also don't have the sort of the, cultural navigation skills to be able to, navigate a college campus. This is a foreign experience for us, but we actually have a scholarship program that's willing to help and support that, and build that skill. I had that language early on. I did make the decision to move away from home. so I was born and raised in Seattle, Washington. and I wanted the traditional college experience, so I, I- wanted to get away from home. and I understand not everyone wants to, but I did. so I attended a college that was probably about five and a half hours away from, the home that I grew up in. it was a very rural town, so I grew up in a s- a very diverse metropolitan city, and then I ended up going to a very, predominantly white rural town in the middle of nowhere. and then I probably knew about five or six people there who had went to the high school that I graduated from. Wow.

Miguel Sanchez 6:09

What did you attend?

Dr. Graham 6:11

Washington State University. Okay. It's one of the major state schools. and I still, even though I knew some people, a very small amount of people, I was very much still lonely. I felt isolated. but I also was, like, really independent, I think that's just something we as first-gen students possess. We just learn how to figure it out. But there were a lot of, new things when I stepped into sort of the college atmosphere, that were very foreign. Like- I didn't know what office hours were. I had to manage a full-time course load while also working full time, and then I also had to manage family relationships back home. When you don't have family members who really understand what college is and the sacrifice that it takes, there's a lot of maybe tension that may arise. Okay, you're a college student, but you're also, needing to pay attention to your family, who may not understand the commitment and sacrifice it requires to attend college. so I'll mention this. This will be the last thing, but my first semester of college, I actually had a 2.7 grade point average. and that's on a 4.0 scale. I was a 3.8, GPA student in high school, so 2.7 to me actually was, like, really low. and a lot of it was just due to the initial, adjustment that I experienced, just moving away from home, moving in the middle of nowhere, feeling like you're the token, Black female in a lot of your friendship groups, and just not having, a blueprint for how to succeed in a new environment. That's my experience as a first-gen student.

Miguel Sanchez 7:45

Thank you for sharing that. and I will say, we've had at least two, Trio professionals. I will say the Trio programs are fantastic in really- Yes helping students learning not only the actual culture of being in college, a college student, but also managing the relationships, as you explained, with your family, translating some ways or communicating to them what it means to be in college. It's not just going to class, but there... Even just the location. Yes rural areas. Yes. The store might not be, two or three blocks like it was probably when you were back home.

Dr. Graham 8:21

Yeah. And

Miguel Sanchez 8:21

that, for someone who's in their early 20s, it is a big deal because you're not really used to those things. So I appreciate you sharing with us that, that background. So you majored in, sociology and counseling. How did you arrive to those interests?

Dr. Graham 8:39

Yeah. This is such a great question. I'll normalize a few things. I think for many first-gen students, there's often pressure to pursue degrees that have a high payoff or like- high monetary benefit. So like sociology and counseling, they're not necessarily careers where there's like a high monetary sort of benefit. my parents were very much "You need to go and be a medical doctor or an engineer," like careers that are very rigorous, but also there's monetary payoff, right? I when I made the decision to pursue sociology, there was a sort of a lack of understanding, I think with my family's what's that?" I also grew up in the, the, the '90s and I think as a millennial, a lot of the messages that we received was, "If you work hard, you go to school, you get the degree, you'll be successful." and that's just the belief that I- Yeah carried with me. I didn't know what sociology or counseling were, what careers would ultimately result from that. but I did a high school, project, during my senior year that focused on, just a career that I was interested in pursuing, and that career was a social worker. I had examples of, social work through a lot of, the mentors that I had, made throughout high school and I was like, "This looks like a really good career." I also just had a natural helping, orientation to myself, really just love helping people, especially those who are historically, disadvantaged. And so I was like, "I wanna do social work." and then, of course, there's really no such thing as like a bachelor's degree in social work. you actually have to earn a master's, and so I decided to pursue sociology, as something that was like akin to social work. writing also came very easy to me. I was not a numbers person. I hated science, but I loved to write and I loved to ask questions. So sociology was great, 'cause it allowed me to be a critical thinker have a sense of curiosity, but also write. and then I'm naturally a more systemic thinker. I'm always asking- Why is this an issue? what is what is the sort of systems problem to this? and so naturally all of that fit into my desire for sociology. And then my master's in counseling, so as I mentioned, I was a participant in the Ronald E. McNair program where there was really, encouragement to pursue a graduate degree. And I would say, that master's was, again, just really driven by the need to help people. and I was just really fascinated with, human behavior. Like, why do people do the things that they do? and it felt practical enough. A lot of the folks that I went to, graduate school with, they were able to complete the master's program, get their certification, and then actually become a counselor. So I was like, "Oh, okay this feels," unlike sociology, there was an actual linear path towards a career.

Miguel Sanchez 11:36

when you describe how you arrived to this interest, you describe your attributes and your skills and your interests. And I sometimes see, And this applies to first gen and non-first gen students, early college students, they don't know what to pursue, what majors. And you s- it seems like you had a really clear idea from what I hear. How would you advise students to start thinking about these things? Because I think it's not that they don't know what they want or what career path, but they don't know how they should be figuring out that piece. So what would... how would you advise, generally speaking, anyone particularly students, how should you start exploring yourself- To find the attributes and the skills that can help you find a career path.

Dr. Graham 12:21

Yeah, this is a really great question. I would first think about, so do your own, internal self-assessment. what are you really good at? what skills... And get very specific, in terms of, what skills just come naturally for you. what skills have you been commended on? "You know what? You're really good about asking, critical questions," or, "You're really good about, translating very technical data a novice audience can understand it." what are you really good at? and then, if you are currently working, I think it's always good to, talk to your manager- and really have, an intense, deep, meaningful conversation about your strengths, and how you see those strengths really translating, to different careers and different jobs. 'cause I think sometimes an outside influence, and it doesn't have to be your manager, it could be a mentor- it could be a family member. just having someone else come in and give you advice on, what they really see as your top skills, is really critical. So I think that's important. And then, I think in t- in today's economy, it's important to have, a realistic lens because- sometimes what we're really good at and what we're really passionate about isn't necessarily going to- lead to a sustainable life. I really love this is another one of my passions, but I love painting. That necessarily isn't going to, allow me e- at least in my eyes, to sustain, the lifestyle that I want. I think it's also just about, being, in tune with, what are some of those, in-demand industries and jobs. how can you take what you're really good at, what people are acknowledging that you're really good at, and actually, use those skills to identify a job that is actually in high demand? You re- you really wanna, look at those jobs that, aren't experiencing, a reduction in workforce and there are ample opportunities. So hopefully that answers the question.

Miguel Sanchez 14:16

No, that's great. I like that, your advice on mentorship- And having someone tell you or share feedback. So I think that's really critical, that mentorship aspect. you talked about jobs and careers, so this leads me to the next question. How did you land your first job? And I ask this because I also see this with students. They have fantastic GPAs, but then comes landing their first job, How did you land your first job? What were some of the, what some advice can you provide about that, career development?

Dr. Graham 14:51

Yeah, no, this is a really great question. So my first full-time professional job, 'cause I wanna distinguish that. Sure. So prior to me finishing school, I had other jobs, both part-time and full-time but they weren't necessarily related to this longtime career in higher education. Really quick, how I found my very first job it was actually at a neighborhood public library. And I was actually someone who was just put- putting away books and cleaning shelves. And I would credit my parents' constant preaching to me of just hard work, and then also just growing up in Seattle in a very predominantly Black and brown community that really taught me the importance of libraries and just increasing- literacy for Black and brown communities. And I tell this story to people because I don't think you can still do this today, but my mom literally dropped me off at the library, and she said, "Go inside talk to them, see if they're hiring, give them your resume," and that's it. And I think I was, like, 15 at the time, so I was, like, really scared and nervous about talking to strangers, but I actually ended up getting a job after that, and I think they were just really impressed with my tenacity and willingness. But my first full-time professional job out of grad school, I was actually the associate director of student affairs at Washington State University. It's one of their satellite campuses in Everett just to give folks a little bit- Sure of a visual sort of picture here. Everett is probably about 45 minutes away from the City of Seattle. But this was a small satellite campus, about 200 and something students. And the students were actually transfer students, so they had completed- their first two years at a local community college, and then they transferred to Washington State University Everett to complete their bachelor's degree. And then in terms of, like, how I found this career and how did I land this, So this was a very unique position because this was like a startup kinda college. It was a, it was a- new college that had not, actually been a physical campus for for a very long time. And so I was actually an office of one. I didn't have any staff. I was overseeing financial aid, career services, mental health counseling, and student involvement. I was also the career counselor, and I was also trying to build out robust career services for students. So a lot of wearing multiple hats. But it's a role that I had applied and interviewed for, and I really stressed since this was my first sort of professional job, I stressed the importance of being innovative- being very self-directed. Being a first-generation student myself, this was a college that had, over 40% of the students were first-gen trying to articulate the fact that I related to a lot of the students who were there. And then I also had emphasized a lot of the student services work that I had done throughout my graduate education, which includes career services, a lot of first-gen student initiatives, working with Trio Support Services as well as the Ronald E. McNair program. And so I think just that total package of technical skills, the soft skills, as well as articulating, that I am committed to the mission of- supporting college completion for first-gen students, I think that all helped in me getting hired.

Miguel Sanchez 18:20

One idea that jumps at me and Clara, feel free to, to share if this is, if this aligns. It sounds like you were sharing how you were a good fit or, or- With the mission, that you were there to provide solutions. And I think sometimes- we often forget that. Yeah. We may say, I'm great candidate for this job because I've done this, and this." But then I think tying it to this is how I can solve some of the issues that may exist or could exist there, I think that really speaks or resonates with the person who's hiring you because more or less, whether it's in s- in education or any other industries, there are problems and they need solutions. So I think it's really important to stress how you can bring solutions is really gonna, i- in many ways separate you from other candidates who are merely saying, "Hey," like sometimes you see this on, on, on social media, "I'm applying to your job because you're hiring." This is- Yeah. Yeah more substantial. Yeah. So talking about your role there, something that stood out to me that I wanna hear more about is you established the the first student food pantry and the first- first generation student celebration at Washington State University, Everett. What inspired those initiatives? I know you talked a little bit about how you understand some of the issues, but what specifically led you to start these initiatives?

Dr. Graham 19:42

Yeah. Again, great question. I think the unique thing about being at a sort of smaller campus you're often the first to do things. And so naturally- I just fell into this. "Oh, this doesn't exist for students. I'll create it." So before I started there, there was not an outlet for first-gen students to share their experiences, to be supported to build community, or to really celebrate them. And as I shared in the previous response th- this was a very sizable, first-gen student population. And then we all know sort of the data on first-gen students. We know that there's many challenges. They have to navigate foreign processes like financial aid, course selection and just a lot of academic expectations, and they don't have a lot of clarity around this. And then, we also feel the weight of expectations from families while also trying to adapt to a new environment. But I... when I first started in this role, a lot of the rhetoric around first-generation students and their experience was often through a deficit lens. So it was always about what are their challenges and what do they need help with? Which is a very important conversation. I don't disagree with that. But I think it's often rare that we take time to actually celebrate the assets and what they actually bring to the college campus. They bring numerous skills that some other students just don't have. The, the experience of growing up in a family where your parents don't have all the answers, and sometimes- they can't help you. So you learn how to be resilient, you learn how to be resourceful. You're able to navigate different cultures. There's often this this terminology in people of color communities, like code-switching. So how we sort of act and talk to, and behave in our sort of natural home of origin communities is very different than how we would talk, speak, act in predominantly white communities. Yeah which is, called code-switching. And, and- in some ways there's been this perception that is often maybe a deficit or it's not a strength, but that actually is a strength, the ability to transverse different cultures very quickly. Absolutely. And so the Proud to Be First the first-generation student celebration at Washington State University, which was called Proud to Be First, That event really focused on their assets and really allowed us to celebrate our first-year college students and how how successful they are, the skills and the assets that they're bringing to the college campus. It created a community of affirmation and empowerment, and it also allowed us to just reframe our rhetoric to students who have challenges to now students with potential and promise. And then regarding the food pantry so there's a lot of data about food insecurity for college students. The National Center for Education Statistics at the univ- at the US Department of Education they have mentioned that about four million students at the college level are food insecure. I think for first-generation college students we are dis- disproportionately affected by food insecurity. And this sort of has implications for how we learn how we're ready to learn in the college environment. So I created the food pantry and it was actually sustained by staff and community donations, which is great 'cause I love it when you can start something on a college campus, and then there's this domino effect of "Oh, that's actually a resource on campus, and I actually live in the surrounding community. I actually wanna help and support-" the food pantry. And I think for many students it just signaled to them that their school cares about them. Their, they care about their needs beyond just learning, which I think is critical to communicate. And it's, and we just signaled that it's a place where you can come, you can learn, you can build community, but you also have your basic needs met. You have access to food, so that's important.

Miguel Sanchez 23:38

No I applaud the work that you've done. And as, as you were describing the idea or the concept of code switching, I started thinking back to when I went to college. It was a very similar experience. My behavior in college settings- Yes even at work, is very different or was very different than my behavior at home, specifically with language and et cetera. And but then I started thinking, and I don't know if this is correct, it- it's an asset because you are aware, you're situationally aware, so you can adjust in a positive way your behaviors and how you speak and also have empathy. So I think it kinda goes back to this idea of emotional intelligence- That those are tools that can help you. And I say that because a lot of jobs or, places are looking for people with high emotional intelligence. So I do think that first-gen do bring that. So I really like that concept. I wanna switch gears and because of all your experience and all your your work with FirstGen Now, you also offer consulting services. You mentioned the beginning the business that you have. So tell us about your consulting services.

Dr. Graham 24:48

Yeah, great question. So I started a consulting business in 2020 during COVID. COVID just provided the opportunity- to explore other interests and passion and one of those was ensuring that folks have resources to be able to succeed in their career. So Dr. C Grant Consulting was the service that I started. And my specialty, as I mentioned, is really helping millennials and Gen Z-ers assess their skills, define their job search strategy, and engage in storytelling to really secure and succeed in the job of their dreams. So I support entry to mid-level professionals. And I've taken an interest in that population specifically because most of these people are college graduates, they're impressionable they're looking for guidance and advice on how do I take what I've learned, you know- in school and apply it. Maybe I have been in the workforce for about seven to 10 years, and I may not be enjoying what I'm doing. How do I pivot to maybe- another industry? And also, I think naturally, even though I don't call out supporting first-gen students specifically in my business- a lot of the people that I tend to support are the first in their family to, to graduate college. But I support them in navigating their first job, career pivots, promotions, advancements, as well as salan- salary negotiation. And then I provide an array of services from interview coaching resume and cover letter development skills assessments. So how do we assess your skills, foster that awareness of what you bring to the table? And then if you're looking on if you're looking for coaching on how to leverage those skills to a new job or a new industry, I can support with that. Job search strategy coaching, as well as coaching around common workplace challenges, like being the only, person of color in a workplace. So those are just some examples of things that I help with.

Miguel Sanchez 26:47

we talked about this in the beginning. We change. Obviously, and I just use myself as an example, I am not the person I was 20 years ago- as far as work experience. So along the way, and I asked myself this question quite a few times- What will happen if I lose my job tomorrow or I want to pivot? And sometimes I wonder, I do need to have someone around me- to help me make that transition because even, or you might get laid off, whatever the case is, those experiences for first gen are still new. Yes. They're still new. And so I do think this is a great resource. We'll have the link to your business in our show notes so anyone can and reach out to you

Dr. Graham 27:28

Yes.

Miguel Sanchez 27:29

how important is story- storytelling for professional development? How should first gen professionals apply it to their professional development?

Dr. Graham 27:39

Yeah, great question. So storytelling is critical. And I think in this economy which is very tough for a lot of people, I mean- people are getting laid off it's very hard to find a job 'cause I think what we're finding is unlike COVID, people are not moving out of their current job- which makes it really hard for people who are looking for a job to actually find jobs that are of interest. LinkedIn, they did a recent survey and it showed that 85% of the jobs are filled via networking. And so I think this signals to people that just applying for a job through traditional means of you fill out an application, whether it's physical or electronic, and you submit it is... it's not enough, right? And people are just finding jobs based off who they know. And I would argue that the who you know piece is critical, and how you actually cultivate relationships with people that- you know via storytelling is very important. And I think the question that I often ask people who are maybe struggling to find a job is, how are you telling stories about the impact of what you do and what have you accomplished that leads to visibility and allows you to expand your network because of that visibility? I also tell a lot of clients who are looking to get promoted or they want to advance in a company or if you're not looking to get promoted or if you don't wanna advance, if you just want more challenging projects at work, like maybe you want- like a stretch project that will allow you to learn new skills or work with different types of people you have to clearly articulate your impact. In order for someone to consider you for an advanced opportunity, you have to be really good at storytelling. How are you making an impact? What have been your results so far? And how will you help address, we talked about this earlier in the episode how will your skills help address a challenge or a pain point in the company or an organization? That's all done through storytelling. And so I think that's really critical, and I think for first gen students in particular we can do storytelling that highlights our assets and our strengths. So I've mentioned a couple of them. You've talked about them, too, like the code switching, if there's a question around, how have you had to navigate two conflicting environments or- just an example, I'm thinking off the top of my head. That's something that you can talk about. First-gen students are really resourceful, so tell me about a time that you had to, accomplish a goal without having all of the resources at your disposal. So again, storytelling. And I think as much as possible, if we can choose those assets and those strengths and tell stories about them, it is so important

Miguel Sanchez 30:29

The next question I have for you, it's... Before I ask, 'cause I think it's related, but before we get there, started thinking about, so you mentioned storytelling, but with storytelling, networking and making connections, and I wonder, and I'd love to hear, I'd love to hear your opinion on this. How do you think remote work has been affecting this practice? Because y- you don't... And I'm thinking back to my experience when I got my second job very similarly I cultivated a relationship with my current boss, and I think back that I don't know if I would be able to do that today because how we build that rapport was with physical connection. We were in the same rooms, we were in the same locations even though we were in different departments. It's a large university. So what's your opinion on remote work? Do you think it's affecting how, not just first gen, but people can develop these relationships and connect their stories?

Dr. Graham 31:31

Yeah. Great question. So I will say I am a proponent of workplace flexibility. And I choose that language intentionally because I feel like this remote work, in-person work debate has got a little contentious. And I think it's just important to be flexible with your employees. I have found the value in being hybrid. It gives you the opportunity for those of us who need very focused time we also need to manage home and work- responsibilities. That has been, very successful. But I've also appreciated the in-person time that I get because I will say the quality of the relationship that I am able to cultivate with a supervisor, with a peer, a colleague with a staff member, is much more meaningful when I actually have the opportunity to meet with them in person. I'm not saying that you can't cultivate meaningful relationships online. People do it. There are remote-only companies, and they do it. That's great, but I'll just say for me personally I prefer more of a hybrid approach. I think with remote you just have to be more strategic. Yeah. So sometimes that may involve, just setting up like ad hoc meetings w- you know, it could be with your supervisor or your staff members or peers, to create additional connection opportunities and additional opportunities for you all to get to know each other beyond sort of your standard remote meetings. So it does require a little bit more work. I also think it's important to leverage technology too in a remote space to sell your impact and your value. I know during COVID where we had no choice but to be at home, and, I wanted to make sure my boss, who was incredibly busy, had the opportunity to at least have some insight into what I was working on. So I would send her updates weekly- via email just noting, these are the things that I've accomplished these are the things that are coming down the pipeline. Just, FYI. And these are the things that, I would love your advocacy on or with. And those weekly updates were critical. Also, I think with online sort of connections and networking, I think finding spaces outside of work are critical. Online meetup groups around a particular interest area. Any type of social online networking groups are really great. I've attended a few online networking meetings where there's a lot of people, but they put us into breakout rooms so we can- Have smaller sort of more intimate discussions. So that works great. But yeah, I would say, for me personally, hybrid works. It, I'm able to establish more meaningful intimate connections, but remote work is great. And then I think also just leveraging technology and the different resources to be able to make those connections im- is important.

Miguel Sanchez 34:23

Terrific. What are some of the biggest obstacles for first-gen graduates? Whether the ones you worked with at the university or in your consulting services, what are some obstacles

Dr. Graham 34:35

Yeah, great question. Colleges at least the college that I went to it has a, it may have a lot of supports for first-gen college students. But I think once you graduate, the working world can feel very lonely and those same- supports actually do not exist. Like in my jobs, we have not had a employee resource group for first-gen graduates. We've had- race-based or- ethnic-based employee resource groups, but never like first-gen graduate groups. So I also think it's important to build and cultivate a community like outside of work as well as inside of your workplace. I think participating in activities outside of work is great 'cause it allows you to take off that work hat. Yes. And, breathe a little bit. You're not necessarily with people who like know your work identity. And then it also just, allows you to be more innovative 'cause you're not necessarily talking with the same people that you normally communicate with. So I always recommend like social interest groups, neighborhood groups are always great. Joining a board, is great. And then, if your organization offers like employee resource groups that's always a great opportunity. Another obstacle I would say is just imposter syndrome. And, many of us who are the first in our family to graduate college we are also often in roles where we are the first of our kind in that role, whether that be- Okay. Yes first-gen- yes whether that be of a racial or ethnic origin. And I think, to manage imposter syndrome, which to define for your audience, if you are feeling as if you're not quite comfortable in a role, things feel a little weird, a little foreign it's typically because you are like the token or the only person in that particular role, so just almost feeling like an imposter. But I think it's important to maintain that culture of curiosity. Don't stop asking questions. Document, like I mentioned, accomplishments with your boss. Don't be afraid to ask for help and feedback. And don't be afraid to talk about your performance and own your performance and really create, positive, meaningful relationships with your peers and your colleagues and mentors. And then we talked about mentorship, but I also wanna mention- Sure sponsorship too, 'cause I think that's- really important. So for those who don't know, mentors are someone that, you know people that you normally go to for day-to-day advice, common career challenges, problems. Mentors can be inside of work, they can be outside of work. But sponsors are really people in senior-level positions who actually can influence your career trajectory. These are people who are the decision-making, decision-makers in an organization and can really help propel your career forward. So if there's a promotion on the table or if there's a new project on the table that y- you would like to be a participant in, you would need a sponsor. And so it's important to have both mentors 'cause mentors are more about the guidance and advice, whereas sponsors are more about how can I get you from point A to point B. We know for first-gen students in particular, it can be hard to find both mentors- and sponsors. So I think it's important to just as you find your new job really do a self-assessment, do an external assessment, like who's who in the workplace, who owns the decision, who makes the decision. I think those are all really great questions to ask.

Miguel Sanchez 38:01

That's terrific. I really like that distinction of sponsors and mentors, and I started thinking about how it varies by mentor. So I can think of people I would go to say, "Hey, I just had a bad day and this happened, that happened," and, "What would you do in that situation?" But then I also started thinking there are some people who I do value greatly for many reasons, but I also know that I can't really... I wouldn't be able to do that, but they're also very important in my career growth. And I think that sponsorship, mentorship distinction is really important as you map out. Something else that you mentioned that I started doing maybe just recently, maybe two years ago, and I wish I had done it sooner, I started journaling a lot of the accomplishments and the promotions I've had. And during times when I do get that sp- imposter syndrome or I feel insecure, or even just frustrated, I go back to that sheet, that journal, and look at my tra- trajectory as a reminder, "Okay, you've gotten this far. If you did it before, you can do it again." So thank you for bringing that up. And as we come to a close this is one of the questions I love to ask, and that is what has been your greatest achievement as a first-gen professional?

Dr. Graham 39:20

Yeah, great que- great question. It's, it took me a while to just think about an answer to this, frankly, because I'm like, "What has been my greatest achievement?" And I would say for me personally I was a student speaker... I was not a student at the time. I was actually a professional. But I was a speaker at a recent McNair graduation at Washington State- University. So the same campus that I had pursued my undergraduate and graduate studies at, they invited me back to be a speaker to talk to students who were actually finishing their bachelor's degree and preparing for their graduate education. And to me, it felt like a full circle moment at the time because this was an organization, the Ronald E. McNair program, that gave so much to me as a student. I didn't even know what a master's was. I didn't know what a PhD was. I had no one in my family who could help me or support me around pursuing graduate school. My parents were like, "Why are you still in school?" "Go get a job." So it was just a program that really affirmed my aspirations to, to pursue my education further. It gave me lifelong friends. And it was nice just to come back and be a speaker at their graduation so I can impart just the wisdom and the advice that I would've wanted at that- time that I was sitting in their place. And yeah, the speech went well. I got a lot of kudos, and I would say that's probably my greatest achievement, just the ability to give back to other people that were in positions that I was in.

Miguel Sanchez 40:58

Full circle moments are always- Yes. Yes great moments in our lives. Dr. Graham, is there anything else you would like to share with our audience before we close?

Dr. Graham 41:06

I think the only thing that I'd say I'll say is for first-gen students who are currently going through the trenches and the struggle, just keep going, your experience matters, and I believe in you and I know that others do too. And then for those who are first-gen graduates also know that your story matters, and keep sharing- your story because I think those who are in the trenches currently, those students who are like, "I feel very alone," our stories matter so much to them. So that's what I'll share.

Miguel Sanchez 41:38

Thank you for sharing your wisdom. And for all of you listening, make sure you check out Dr. Graham's consulting services and reach out to her for help. Thank you for being here today, and we'll be in touch soon.

Dr. Graham 41:49

Okay. Thank you so much.