Miguel Sanchez : 0:10

Welcome to First Gen 1 0 1, the podcast where first generation graduates share their stories and career tips. I am your host, Miguel Sanchez. In this episode, Joshua Pilgrim talks about his passion for psychology and education. Listen, as Josh shares insights about navigating college, the importance of breaks and finding your true calling, let's listen in. Welcome to another episode of First Gen 1 1. Today I have Joshua Pilgrim. How are you today, Josh?

Joshua Pilgrim: 0:44

I'm good, Miguel. It's good to see you.

Miguel Sanchez : 0:46

It's good to see you. Josh and I know each other probably since the fourth grade. And one of the things that I mentioned earlier before we started the the recording recording. is Josh is one of those people who is still in school, not because he's been failing, but because he's been doing really well and really improving his career and is going to do tremendous things in education. So that being said, Josh, tell me a little bit about your background.

Joshua Pilgrim: 1:18

Sure. So Miguel, I grew up in, in Spring Valley, Hillcrest East Ramapo School District. And so after Ramapo, I went to Dominican College straight out of high school for four years and I majored in psychology. And then I did my master's degree. So I took two years off actually, after Dominican, after my bachelor's, took two years off and got my master's. in school psychology. I went to Long Island University for that. And so in total and that was a three year program. And now I'm a school psychologist. So in total, that was like seven years worth of education. And I remember when I finished my master's in 2017, I said I was never going back to school, that was it, I'm the first person in my family to have a master's degree. So I was like, that's it. I've accomplished it all. And then after my first year as a school psychologist, I realized that I like the job now, but I don't know if when I'm 45 or 50, if I'm still going to like that. And I wanted opportunities. Or have opportunities rather for more. And so that's why I decided to do my certification in school leadership, which is what I'm doing now. It took me a couple of years to start that. So I had that realization in 2018. I didn't start this program until the end of 2022, the beginning of 2023. I came from a a good home to say, mom, dad decent home. I have an older sister but she and I are actually 20 years apart, which I think is going to as we talk more, I can explain how that kind of impacted my own navigation of college and being. First generation college student.

Miguel Sanchez : 2:59

And what led you to choose psychology as a major?

Joshua Pilgrim: 3:03

I don't know if you remember, we had a teacher in Ramapo Mr. Torres. And he was the psychology teacher, and I took his AP psychology course. And so after taking that course, I was like, wow, this, I like this subject. Like I like the subject more than any other subject. And I also had a desire for helping people. Mostly I always knew I wanted to work with kids, especially kids and teenagers. And so that was how I navigated and shifted towards majoring in psychology.

Miguel Sanchez : 3:32

So, Professor Torres if you're listening I still do remember your class, and as you can hear, it has also had effects on other students which is one of the great benefits of being a teacher that you can instill interest and a passion in others. Going into college, let's get right into that. How was that dynamic of navigating college and also the relationship with your family?

Joshua Pilgrim: 3:55

It was. It was a change. Academically, I think it was okay. I was a pretty decent student academically. I think I just had to learn how to study. And I realized like I was on my own, right? There's nobody there to wake you up anymore. There's nobody there to make sure you ate breakfast, lunch and dinner. Like a lot of things I had to navigate. On my own, I had to figure out where my classrooms were which building was which, right? Thankfully, I went to Dominican, which is a smaller campus. But that was. I think the academic part was okay. For me, it was more so the social part that was more of the challenge. I had to dorm with a bunch of people. And I had a roommate and I came from a home where it was, I was the only kid in the house. So It was a big shift, right? I had to share a bathroom with a bunch of guys, right? That was all a big shift. I had to hear parties next door, right? Like on a Thursday night so the social aspect was more of the challenge for me. And once I learned how to navigate that helped me to be more successful.

Miguel Sanchez : 5:13

Did you dorm throughout college or only for a period?

Joshua Pilgrim: 5:17

I dormed throughout college, all four years.

Miguel Sanchez : 5:19

At what point did you finally realize, you know, parties and Thursday nights, it's just part of school.

Joshua Pilgrim: 5:25

I honestly think it was my second year. By my second year, I just realized This is what it is,

Miguel Sanchez : 5:33

When you started school as a psychology major, did you know you wanted to go into education? Did you maybe want to go to clinical paths? What was that for you? How did you decide?

Joshua Pilgrim: 5:46

I will say that at the, it took me two years to go from my bachelor's to my master's because at the end of my senior year of college, I had like a conversation with someone with a family member and they basically said something like, Oh if you want to work in a school, then you're going to have to deal with the politics of the school. And if you're not, if you don't want to deal with that, then maybe you shouldn't do that just like that. And I got. I started doubting and I was like maybe I'm not built out for this. And then I was like I didn't really minor in education. My minor was actually criminal justice. So I was thinking maybe I should just go into forensic psychology since I have more of that background. But even in doing that, and I was looking at John Jay at that time. And even in doing that, I wasn't sure. And a friend of mine at the school had told me, she said, you don't seem sure about this. And I was like no, I am sure. I am sure. And she's no, you don't seem sure. And she said, it's okay to take a year off. You don't have to go straight into it. It's okay to take a year off. And by her telling me that I took that advice. And I'm glad I did because instead of wasting money on a program that I might not have enjoyed or later on changed my mind. And now I got to dish out more money. I just took the year off to figure it out, which is okay. It's okay to take that year off and figure it out.

Miguel Sanchez : 7:19

I like what you said about taking a break. One of the things that I encourage college graduates, if you're not sure about the graduate program, whether it's an MBA or a JD or a PhD It might be helpful to start working so that you can confirm if that's what you want to do. Something that Josh mentioned that I thought was also important is he, it sounds like he was very excited. You sounded very excited about working in the school and all the perks that come with it. And, but there's more to that. You have to get that job if you can or an internship so you can see, you know, there are these perks or these benefits, but there might be also some negative, so to speak. And so do you want to do that for the rest of your life, the next 10 years? So thank you for, for bringing that up about how important it is to take breaks. And so did you start working in a school after graduation?

Joshua Pilgrim: 8:20

Sure. So after graduation, I I started working at St. Dominic's home. So it took me six months though. So right after graduation, I was still working in retail, in the mall, And that was, May. So yes, so graduation was May of 2012. So by February of 2013, I had started working at ST Dominic's home, which is in Orangeburg, right by Dominican College. And it's a social service agency for people that don't know. It's a social service agency, and they have different departments. They have forced to care. They have developmental disabilities or O. P. W. D. They have the department that does the the accountability, Making sure that everybody is doing their role. And if somebody is not doing their role in OPWDD or enforcer care then they provide the services for that. And so my job was, like we say shuffling papers. So I worked within the accountability department. But it was under foster care. And so basically when kids are discharged, from foster care, whether they go back home to their parents or when they are adopted, their records would come from the Bronx. Cause that's where the kids, the foster care program was in the Bronx. The records would come from the Bronx to Orangeburg. And I just had to make sure that they went into a storage area. And so that was mostly my job. It didn't really pay much. It was the first job that was not retail that I had apply for that caught me back. But it provided me with certain experiences, Working with people being able to handle different personalities. I was able to, as I looked, as I went through the records of a lot of these kids there was just things I was exposed to, Their educational records were in there, And so how to file things away. People don't realize like these basic skills are needed for your careers, right? And people think filing is something that's, Oh, it's just so easy. If I told you in my job now, how many times somebody misfiles a name. because they didn't know which one was the first name, which one was the last name. Or a name was spelled wrong, or they have to go through the alphabet in their head still. If I told you how often that happens, like you just be amazed. And so people take something like that's so small, for granted. But these were all skills that later on helped me, or like I was able to use in the And so yeah, I did St. Dominic's Home, and then while I was at St. Dominic's Home, that was when I started going to grad school. And thankfully even though the job honestly was not, Mind stimulating. It allowed me the flexibility to go to graduate school at night because my job was like a nine to five Monday through Friday, And then when I started grad school, there was some days I was able to come in. my supervisor actually allowed me to come in at eight o'clock so I could leave at four or four 30 so I could get to school on time. And so it allowed me the opportunity and the flexibility To to pursue my master's degree.

Miguel Sanchez : 11:38

So from there, you pursue your masters and what did you enroll and what was your focus in this area?

Joshua Pilgrim: 11:45

So I enrolled at Long Island university the West Chester campus. Long Island university It had a campus in Rockland, which was by St. Thomas Aquinas, And then it had the second campus, which was at Purchase university in West Chester. And so that was where I went, the Purchase university. Campus because that was the only campus that had the school psychology program. The Rockland campus didn't have that and I wasn't traveling all the way out to Brooklyn for it. Cause that's where the original LIU campus is in Brooklyn. So I went to LIU Westchester Purchase, SUNY Purchase campus. And my, the program I did was school psychology. It was a three year program. So the least amount of time that you could do it was three years. Because you would take two courses, I believe, in the spring and fall. And then two courses in the summer. And that was your first year and second year. And then your third year was your internship year. And I think there was two courses. You took like an internship course and then another course the third year.

Miguel Sanchez : 12:51

Did at any point, maybe going through the coursework, did you realize maybe this is not for

Joshua Pilgrim: 12:57

I was nervous that it would not be for me? So when I remember going in to the program and I remember praying specifically and I was, I'm a man of faith. And so I'm praying and I'm like, all right, Lord if this is where you want me to be you'll just open doors. And if this is not where you want me to be, then you won't open doors and I'll just figure it out from there. And so as I went through the coursework, there was not anything that did not interest me. Everything was interesting to me. Everything was, it was like a constant spark. And so I stayed interested in the subject in the field. When I got to the field work, so you have to do 90 hours of field work, which is only for a semester. So that's like you go to a school one day a week. And then the next semester is your internship, which is 1200 hours, which you work every day at the school the whole day. So for people that might have. already have a job or have a family, it's hard to do. I had people in my program that worked at night at a hospital. And then in the daytime, they they went to their internship Thankfully I was fortunate enough that I didn't have to do that. But when I started my fieldwork, it was all right, because I'm just shadowing the person. But when I started the internship, I was like, all right, this is it. If I, this is the moment where I find out if I'm made for this or not. And I remember thinking it would suck if I get to this point, which is the last point and realize I am not made for this. I hate this. Because now I've done two years of work. But the reality was, this is where I was. And I was like, you know what? If I go into this and I don't like it, or it's not for me, or it's worse than I thought, I'll have to figure it out. That's just it. I'll just have to drop out and figure it out. But thankfully I went into it and I, I really enjoyed it. And so one thing I can say, Based on my experience is especially in education, mostly in education, working with kids, you have to enjoy working with kids. You have to, if you don't enjoy it. You're not going to like it if you're in it for the days off, you're not going to make it because you're mindset and your heart are just not in the right place. That's just, and that's for anything. That's for anything. If I went into forensic psychology and became a forensic psychologist, could I have done that? Yeah. Would I have enjoyed it? Maybe not because I might have really been meant to be a school psychologist. So I might not have enjoyed it. And so by me not probably not enjoying it, I probably wouldn't do that well of a job as a forensic psychologist. And so anything that you go into, there has to be, I think, a level of enjoyment. And there will be things you don't like about your job. I don't like that. I have to write a report Actually, I didn't even know I had to do that until I got into the program and took the assessment course. And they said, You have to write a report. And I was like, what? I hate writing. I hate writing. Thankfully for templates, they make life easier. But I don't like that part of my job. I don't always enjoy having to call a parent. I don't always enjoy having to talk to a teacher. But what I do enjoy about my job is being able to work with students and being able to make a difference But as long as You enjoy the field as a whole. I think you'll find ways to navigate that.

Miguel Sanchez : 16:37

says this is a podcast about providing advice. to first gen students in college or high school students who are thinking about college from a school psychologist perspective to the extent that you can share what are some of the things that are driving the anxiety on these students is it that they can't get into school the type of school what are some things on the student's mind about the college selection process

Joshua Pilgrim: 17:11

I'm glad you asked that. So last year, and I think I might have noticed this a lot more last year with my students a lot of the anxiety and it starts in junior year. It starts sophomore year. Sometimes a lot of the anxiety is wanting to get into the big school, I've had students that they want to do big things. They want to be doctors. And then go into the medical field, be an accountant, right? And so they're striving for the big name schools or they're striving to get into good schools. And that's where some of that anxiety comes from. And I've had to explain to some of them. At the end of the day, The college name like yeah, if you're gonna be a doctor and you want to go to Harvard or I don't know other big name medical schools If you want to go there then yeah, like I get that but at the end of the day like college names or college names And it's all about the effort and the work that you put out into it, And I've had students that want to go to these big name schools for something like teaching. And it's you don't need to do that. You can go to Dominican or Stag. You don't have to go to Columbia. yeah. and but that's the, that's where the, that anxiety comes from. And it's the students putting a lot of pressure on themselves, thinking that they need to do this. And what I'll tell them is you will go where you are meant to be. And it is okay. Like it is really okay. If you don't go to like John Hopkins, it's okay. You have to have options. Don't put, I think that's the other thing too, a lot of these students, they'll put all the eggs in one basket. So they'll put them all into NYU, John Hopkins, like that one college they want to go to. And then when they don't get accepted there, or they find out they can't afford it, now they're really upset, or they're really anxious, they really don't know what to because they put all their eggs in one basket. And so I'll tell students, It's best to have other options. And so I'll tell students, so a lot of that anxiety comes from the pressure that students put on themselves. I think the other anxiety is and I do have students that would be first gen college students that genuinely What to do. And you see a lot of behaviors. They'll start failing classes. And so it's like, why? Most likely they're scared. They don't know what the future holds. And so they're going through that. And so I think sometimes the anxiety is the pressure kids put on themselves to go to these big name schools. Sometimes anxiety is the uncertainty of life after high school And Especially for some first gen students, they don't know. And then on top of that, if you're first gen and you're in special education, it's even more complicated and more challenging if you don't get the proper resources. And yeah that's where I've seen a lot of the anxiety and I've had to tell students that. No matter what plans you make for life after high school some things will work out and some things won't work out. And that's the way life, that's just the way life is. But you have to have a goal. And so I think for students that are struggling with, what do I do after high school? Do I go to college? Do I not go to college? You ask yourself, what is the goal? What is your goal? And then realizing college isn't For everyone, right? That's the other thing too. College is not for everyone. We want a lot of students to go to college. But if I've had students that went to both cc tech for to, for like electrician or plumbing or whatever, and they enjoyed that, like they really genuinely enjoyed it. And so I'm like, yeah, go for that. Go for that. Because, many of us dished out so much money on college. The reality that if I had that type of skill, and I didn't have to dish out all that money for college, I would. But for other students, I've told them go to RCC and try it out. But you have to know what you want to do. And if you want to be something like a teacher it doesn't matter if you don't like school or not, you have to go to college for it. If you want to be an accountant, it doesn't matter if you like school or not. You have to go to school for that. You need a bachelor's degree. You need maybe even a master's degree for it. These are just things that we know. And so it's okay. Once we have that goal, how do we help them pursue that? And I think it's teaching them that there's going to be uncertainties, and After high school, and that's okay, but you have to give yourself the opportunity to explore all these different options and different venues.

Miguel Sanchez : 21:56

Josh, that was great advice, and I can't think of any other way to end the episode. I think some of the things that you mentioned that stuck with me, one is, in your experience, and having a clear why, you knew. You wanted to go into psychology because you wanted to help people and then you found a niche where you're helping people in many ways. Another thing that you mentioned that's really important is Knowing that the job you're going into after college is going to have its plus and minuses and be always open minded to the different things out there. And then finally, having a clear goal of why you want to go to school and that you don't have to go to a big name it's okay to go to a different school that's good for you. Josh, Thank you for being here today.

Joshua Pilgrim: 22:49

Thanks for having me.

Miguel Sanchez : 22:51

Thank you for listening. I hope you enjoyed this episode, like share and subscribe to the podcast.