Miguel Sanchez : 0:10

Welcome to First Gen 101, the podcast where first generation graduates share their stories and career tips. I am your host, Miguel Sanchez. In this episode, Miguel Lluesma shares his inspiring path to becoming an attorney. From the pivotal moments that sparked his passion for law to the challenges of law school, Miguel's story one of resilience and purpose. If you're considering a career in law, this episode is a must listen. Welcome to another episode of First Gen 101. we have Miguel Lluesma. thank you for joining me today.

Miguel Lluesma: 0:49

Thank you for having me.

Miguel Sanchez : 0:51

Known each other for several years now, attend the same church, and I remember when you left off to law school. I remember how exciting that day was for the church the church hosted a farewell, during the time I remember how excited you were So let's start with that. Why did you decide to become a lawyer?

Miguel Lluesma: 1:14

Yeah, I'll go all the way back when I was a kid. I was always very argumentative. And adults would always joke around and tell me, you should be a lawyer? someday. And I would laugh it off because I never thought I would go to law school and go through that process. I thought was too difficult and that someone like me wouldn't be able to do it. But over the years, there were certain things happening around me, that kind of started putting a fire inside of me. And, just the first Time this happened would be, when I was in college, when Trayvon Martin was killed by George Zimmerman, I remember being, either a freshman or a sophomore. I can't remember exactly around the time, but, I remember feeling really impacted by what happened then. And for those who might not know the story, that was, a young, Black man who was, walking home from the store. During All Star Weekend for basketball, sometime in February. A self proclaimed neighborhood watch guy, George Zimmerman, followed him. There was an altercation, and eventually Trayvon Martin was shot and killed, it sparked a huge outrage in the country over, you know, violence, the way that we treat Black people in this country. And then also, since he was self proclaimed Neighborhood Watch, there was also some aspect of law enforcement in there. And then, in the months that followed, there were other, incidents with law enforcement and unarmed Black men. I remember watching that, and feeling like, man, this isn't right. Something's off. Something's wrong. I also felt somewhat, personal because I'm brown. And I've had my run ins with law enforcement. Sometimes I was guilty. Sometimes I wasn't. Sometimes I was getting pulled over for running a stop sign. And sometimes I was getting pulled over just because of the way that I looked or the type of car that I drove. So all these stories that I was hearing, which started with Trayvon Martin. Really resonated with me this was one of the first times that I noticed, injustice. It didn't seem right to me that an unarmed. American citizen walking home from the store or driving their vehicle or just being at a park, could have a run in with law enforcement or any other person for that matter and looked at like they were either less than human, or with no type of value, the aftermath is a lot of these people who perpetuate some of these injustices, for example, George Zimmerman got away with it. There was a court case. He was arrested at some point. He was brought in and he had a trial, I'm not complaining about the trial process. I think that's something that we all have a right to. It's in our constitution. It's a wonderful thing to be able to have your voice heard. However, I was noticing that a lot of these people were getting off. They were going into the courtroom. Had an attorney present and We're getting away with something we all witnessed. Fast forward a couple of years, then it was Philando Castile. Then it was Brianna Taylor. Then it was, you know, Michael Brown. It was, all these different people, Tamir Rice. And then ultimately it got to George Floyd. When George Floyd happened, That was like my final straw. I was protesting, commenting on Facebook, getting into arguments with people at Thanksgiving. It was like I finally had enough and so a mentor of mine sat me down and said, you know What are you doing with yourself now at the time? I was working at a doctor's office. Doing a little bit of construction work and I really didn't know what I was doing with my career My mentor sat me down and said you're really smart and very passionate about, fighting for, people that don't have a voice or, standing up against injustices. You do a lot of ministry work in the church. Have you considered going to law school? I said, no, why would I do that? And he said, right now you're just, a Facebook champion. You're complaining a lot and you have some good ideas standing up for people and saying that this is wrong. You know, we should do this. But you're not really making any progress. And you don't really have a career yet. So like? Why don't you think about that? I remember I was sitting down at the dinner table with him and my father And my dad was sitting down with me and said if you go to law school and begin this fight against all these injustices, representing people who don't have a voice to be able to you know stand in the gap against all sorts of different types of systems that are set up. i'll help you you have my financial commitment. So I said, Okay. Let me take some time to think about this because this is a big decision. That night I've never shared this part of the story with anyone except for maybe my wife. But that night I ended up watching the movie Just Mercy by Brian Stevenson. Michael B. Jordan. was the main character. He played Brian Stevenson, who was an attorney. It was about his life and how he helped get someone off of death row who was incarcerated for a crime they didn't commit. They exhausted all of their resources trying to figure out how to get this guy off of death row in Alabama facing all sorts of obstacles. Specific the main one was racism It's a racist court system that was rigged against this man. He was a black man. Brian stevenson was a black attorney I was watching that movie and I had already read the book but somehow the movie just impacted me more I remember that night, getting down on my knees and weeping, uncontrollably, because of everything that was going on in the world around me, from Trayvon Martin to George Floyd, I was thinking about all the times that I was in similar situations where my life could have ended, I was thinking about all of the people who have stories of their run ins with law enforcement or the court system. I'm not even talking about just, those situations, even going as far as people who are undocumented immigrants. We've all been in situations where we might have gotten an eviction letter and we don't know where we're gonna go. We might be homeless I thought about all of my experiences and I just wept and wept I got Down on my knees and I asked God if this is where you want me to go If you want me to take this Avenue If you want me to listen to my mentor if you want me to stop going on Facebook to complain if you want me to move forward go to law school and become an attorney and be a voice then open the doors if you open them, I'll run through them. I won't complain. I won't stop. I'll just go through as long as those doors keep opening. I remember going to sleep that night, exhausted, tired, frustrated, but somewhat encouraged. The next day I told my mentor and my dad, I need a little bit of help studying for the LSATs because I'm gonna, do it. I need some time off work. I need, you know, a little bit of. a little bit of money up front to pay for the course. And I'm going to do it. And that was the beginning.

Miguel Sanchez : 8:17

if you are someone who's thinking about law school, really think about your, why, why do I want to be a lawyer? We are going to get into the preparation to go to law school, which, Miguel already alluded. It's cost money. And so really be clear about why do you want to be a lawyer? And then once you get to law school, you'll have. The space and time to think about the different ways that you can, get a job because that's what most people want right after law school. It makes sense, but really, your time in law school is going to help you explore and figure out different ways how you can implement your why. So going back to. The law school preparation, you mentioned the LSAT. And for those of you listening, the LSAT is a standardized test that most law schools require. Miguel, can you tell us more about that process? How did you prepare for the LSAT? What was some of the frustrating aspects of studying and taking that exam

Miguel Lluesma: 9:14

Yeah. When I took the LSAT, it was around 2020 during the pandemic, which was a unique time. I was working every day in person at a doctor's office. Considered essential. I didn't have the opportunity to stay home and study all day. worked nine to five, and when I got home, I would, go online and take, practice LSATs to see where I was at and what I would need. I had no idea what the exam looked like. At the time it was reading comprehension, logical reasoning, and analytical reasoning, which was the logic games. I've never done anything like that before. I did logic games in college when I took a philosophy course. I had no idea what the test looked like, what we were being asked. it's an entrance exam into law school. I thought I'd be asked Basic things about. the law, but it turns out that's nothing like the exam is not that at all So I started to get familiarized with it by just googling free LSAT exams And I would take them now I set myself up for failure Because the exams I took, were a lot easier than what I would be presented with, after taking a course in the LSAT itself. And I ended up scoring really high on the first one, and I said, Oh, this is gonna be a piece of cake. I don't even need to study. I was wrong. Thankfully, I had someone sit me down and say, you know, you really need to take a course, you need to do this, try this practice exam, use this website. When I did that, my LSAT score started, dropping down gradually to, some more average scores and eventually some really low ones that discouraged me. But I went online, found a couple of different courses, and I just found whichever one was the most affordable. Now you had mentioned one of the barriers, is pricing and, getting finance for these things. I think my LSAT course was somewhere around 1, 500 to 2, 000. I don't remember the exact number, but that's, pretty pricey for someone who, Had just gotten laid off a few, you know, like a year before, didn't have any work. Like I said, I was working at the doctor's office, and wasn't, making a lot of money. It was during the pandemic, so everything was slow. You know, I don't know if people remember, but we were all struggling. We were so excited to just get a few, you know, 1000 bucks from the government for those stimulus checks. That's how rough times were. I didn't really have the money for that. But I remembered my dad saying, listen, if you do this, I'll help. I also remember getting down on my knees and praying and asking if you open the door, I'll run through it. The first door was getting the money to be able to pay for that course and thankfully my father was able to cover the full price of it. I was able to get the course it was like three or four times a week online during the pandemic. I couldn't go in person. They sent us the materials through the mail, the first class The instructor introduced himself. He explained each part and what we would be doing going forward. Then we started doing practice problems the first one we did was reading comprehension, which I struggled with the most. Then we did logical reasoning and so to break it down for all the listeners, reading comprehension was like a short essay. You had to read through it. And then they would ask you, multiple choice questions after the short essay, and they would Ask you a question that was hidden inside the essay. And it's something that you kind of had to think about. Like it wasn't explicitly right in front of you. After practice you'd read a few sentences and be able to find exactly what they were asking. Then you'd, answer the question. Then there was logical reasoning, which was like maybe a. Three to four sentence, question, and you had to give the best answer. This is something that I really struggled with, all throughout law school because I'm used to there being a right answer. I know they changed the LSAT format so I don't know how it is now, but at the time, there was four answers. One of them was a bad answer, probably a wrong answer. A third one was a misdirect. It was like, Oh, this could be the answer, but really they want to, see you get to something else. And then there were two answers that were really good, but one of them was better than the other, but they both could have been right, and you had to pick, the right answer, which was the best answer. so that was the LSAT experience. It was long, it was hard, The best advice that I got before the actual exam day was don't worry. You're never going to remember your LSAT score after you take it and you get into law school. Just take it, get in, and keep pushing forward. So that's what I did. I ended up, taking the LSAT. I don't remember my exact score. But, yeah, I scored something like in an average area it really was something that was in the back of my mind after I took it and I was just so excited to get A law school acceptance letter that it was just I was done with it moved on but that was the LSAT experience

Miguel Sanchez : 14:02

thank you for sharing and I'm glad you described in detail because One of the things I notice with first gen law students or first gen prospective students is their lack of knowledge. This is not their fault. The LSAT. And I'm sure it's similar with other entrance exams for other schools. It's a big part of your application. So if you're considering law school, I'm going to leave some links, on the show notes so you can review, more about the LSAT if that's something that you are looking into. But going from there, you attended Roger Williams Law School in, Rhode Island. How was the experience of leaving New York to Rhode Island?

Miguel Lluesma: 14:44

I love New York. I'm a Yankee fan. I love New York pizza. I'm a typical New Yorker. It was hard to leave New York. My family is here. I have my mom, my dad, my sister, my brother in law, they're in North Jersey, New York area. Our church is in New York. It's where I've been my whole life. All my friends are there. So it's difficult leaving to go to a new place. And on top of that, I was newly married. It was my wife's first time leaving the state and we're going to, a completely different area. You know, Rhode Island is. I'd never been there before in my entire life. It's a really small state. You can get from one end to the other in an hour. Take me an hour just to get to New York city from where we live so just to get, a picture of, how big and massive New York is versus Rhode Island. And then on top of that, we're spoiled in New York. You know, I brought up pizza. Our pizza really is amazing. And you go to other states. And it's just, not as good. Also, everything closes really early. Especially where we lived. We were in Barrington, Rhode Island and everything closed at like 8 or 9 o'clock. So, if you were coming home, 9, 30, 10 o'clock at night from school, work, studying, maybe a church event or something, You were out of luck for dinner. You just have to either, make some ramen noodles at home and be good with that or have a bowl of cereal. And then just wait until the next day for things to open up again. Whereas in New York, things are open till midnight, one, two o'clock in the morning, sometimes, especially in the city. So that was an adjustment. It was also difficult to be that far away from so many support systems. One of the things that you really need to rely on when you are in law school is your friends, your family, your religious community. Those are really important aspects, of life If you don't have those it's hard because law school can feel lonely even when you have people there it's a tough experience, but rhode island was beautiful. I loved it. The seafood was amazing Everybody was really nice. Everywhere I went, I felt like, family. We visited a church out there. Everybody at law school was kind. My wife found a job working with a family out there and they were wonderful. They all treated us like we were one of them. It was a really nice experience in that aspect.

Miguel Sanchez : 16:46

Location is such a big part of education and making sure that you are at the right place, especially if you have a list of law schools it's really important to visit the schools you're applying to. Because you will be living there for the next three or four years. As Miguel mentioned, at times you can feel lonely or not really close to your support system. It can also be a good experience, a good maturing experience. sometimes you learn things that you normally wouldn't learn when you're, at home, with your community. But all in all, as you're deciding to go to law school, and as you're putting your list together. Be sure to visit as many schools so that you can see the community and see if it's the right fit So now you're at Roger Williams is your first semester in law school Did you ever feel like I should not be doing this? How and why am I here?

Miguel Lluesma: 17:42

law school in general is not easy. It's very difficult and they make it so on purpose because you're trying to weed out people that, are not serious about being there. And you really want people that are gonna, focus. You know, pass the bar exam and become an attorney a lot of these people are going to become your politicians. When you see them on TV, winning their elections, they're going to say, Oh, so and so went to this law school. So you're a representative of that law school well beyond your time there. It's very important for them to make this process difficult. When you're a first law student, it's just even more barriers. It was difficult that first semester. Every day I felt like I didn't belong. Like I was in the wrong place. I felt like they made a mistake picking me. Did I really do well enough on the LSAT to get into here? Do I really understand what's going on? I'm looking at the person next to me thinking they must be smarter than me. This person's an overachiever. This person's answering all the questions, this person's getting cold called and, not afraid. I would just sit there wondering to myself, I did have imposter syndrome and the one thing that really helped me, was the dean of the law school. He was a really good guy. Very down to earth, very personable, very friendly. You never felt like he was up here and we were down here. And, on the first day on our orientation, when we all got to law school, He said something that I would always have to tell myself whenever I would have those thoughts of being an imposter. He said, I want every one of you to know that you were specifically chosen. We carefully looked over each and every application and we chose you for a reason and you are supposed to be here. And not only are you supposed to be here, He says, we are all here to do this together, and you're supposed to be here, and we want you here, and we're happy that you're here. And when he said that, I felt like a lot of weight lifted. It was like, wow, somebody who's that important, a dean of a law school who's also an attorney, is telling me that I'm their colleague, that, I'm supposed to be here, that they chose me, that they carefully looked at that application and, you know, in that moment, I felt reassured. Now again, the thoughts come in every single day, but those words kept coming back to me every single day. I would just recite them in my head and think, okay, I got this. I can do it. And I did.

Miguel Sanchez : 20:10

Typically, the 1L year, the first year in law school is the hardest because you're trying to figure it out as you are in a brand new experience. And it helps to have people around you helping you. did. you have any mentors? I know you talked about a mentor who. instilled, the interest to go to law school or motivated you to go to law school? Did you have any mentors in law school that helped you navigate the process?

Miguel Lluesma: 20:43

One bit of advice that I would give to people, especially who are first gen, or if you're just, you know, even if you're not first gen, if you're in law school and you feel like you don't have someone, you know, in your corner or whatever, find one. There are a lot of people at Roger Williams that were willing to be that for a lot of different students. And there are two people, that especially helped me. One of them was, one of my professors. He taught me, evidence. He taught a, racism and diversity class. Regarding the law, he and I quickly connected. I would ask him a lot of questions. He would help me and then eventually, I'd be in his office during office hours, getting some help on some assignments or talking about some cases or whatever current event might have been going on at the time. We. Fast became friends and realized we had a lot in common. He became a mentor for me and not only a mentor, but a personal friend. The other professor was the professor that actually helped me. the most, as far as my career path. Professor Warnberg, she was in charge of the New York Pro Bono Scholars program, which I was a part of. She's the one who told me about it, got me set up, told me what I needed to do to accomplish everything. She taught one of the classes. Helped me get my internship and wrote my recommendation letter. Like she was unbelievably helpful. The two of them prepared me the most for everything that would happen in law school, and also helped me outside of law school. If I had a question about something, they were the people I would go to. They'd give me an answer. Even till this day, I have evidence questions before trial, and I'll reach out to my professor, Professor Freeman, and say, Hey, I remember going over this in class one time, I just wanted your two cents. I'll send him a quick email, and he'll write me back within the hour, or give me a call, and, we'll have a brief chat, catch up. I did have those two mentors. On top of that, I had, First year, I had some really good teachers that understood the frustrations, the fear, the uncertainty, about being a first year law school, a law school student, and they really catered to us in a way that, didn't hinder us. They didn't baby us and hold our hand all the way through, but they encouraged us, they were hard on us when they needed to be, but also very helpful in laying out the groundwork for what year one would look like because it was a stressful year. It wasn't easy.

Miguel Sanchez : 23:01

When I meet prospective students, many of them often ask, what is the fastest way I can get out of law school? How fast can I get my degree? And I typically point that you have to develop relationships while you're in law school, build your network. Doing law school fast track is not generally the best way to do it because you will miss Building those relationships that are going to be helpful even after law school, like in your example, you still reach out to this professor when you have evidence questions. How was that transition for you from law school to a career that you're in now? And if you can tell us about what you do.

Miguel Lluesma: 23:43

I started doing the New York pro bono scholars program at the Bronx Defender's office. For those who don't know, the pro bono scholar program is unique to New York, for your final semester of law school, you finish early. It's still three years, but you get all of your coursework done in two and a half. She helped me figure out how to get my coursework done in the two and a half years. And then for my final semester, with the New York pro bono scholars program, you offer pro bono services. So you're not getting paid. It's more of an extern ship. And you go to like a non profit organization, or a public defender's office, or a DA's office, and you work under a supervising attorney, practicing. They sign off, on all of your work, but you're getting experience of what it actually is like to be an attorney, in an actual office, and you get to start helping people right off the bat. So for any other social justice warriors that are listening, if you really want to get to work quick, and you want to help people do the new pro bono scholars program there are a lot of people that are in need of it. And there are a lot of organizations and, like public defender's offices, DA's offices that participate. The return for you as a student is that you get to take the bar exam early. Now it's difficult because it's the bar exam. It's way harder than the LSAT ever was. It's definitely the hardest exam that I've ever taken. And to take it early before you're done, is not an easy thing to do. If you really want to do the New York Pro Bono Scholars Program, you want to get out of law school fast, you want to take the bar exam, I recommend doing it, but you still need to be patient. You still need to be diligent, and really take, that time seriously because you don't have the same amount of studying time that your colleagues do in law school where they finish, in the spring semester and then have those few months in the summertime to study for the July bar exam. So you're actually taking it in February. Then once you're done, you start working at the, office you're doing pro bono for. When you complete that work, you graduate. So you actually graduate maybe a week or two after your colleagues in law school, but hopefully you'll have passed the bar exam, before that. So you'll actually be. Ready to get admitted before everybody else. And it gives you a head start on the application process. Because one thing that's very attractive to law firms and other offices is if you are already done with the bar exam, they don't have to worry about you studying and failing the bar exam. They don't have to invest that time. They can say, Oh, no, you already passed. Great. So you're very marketable. I thought that was very helpful for me because I was a first generation law student. I didn't have other lawyers that, had jobs waiting for me. I had a harder time finding internships in year two than some of my other classmates because they had either a family member or a family friend that was already an attorney to hire them for the summer. So I didn't have any of those avenues. The pro bono scholars program was my ticket into an internship. Unfortunately, at the time, the Bronx Defender's Office was going through a strike, so they weren't sure if I'd be able to stay on, it was a tough time because I wanted to stay there, I really enjoyed the job, but I wasn't able to get an interview afterwards. So I called my professor, my mentor. We talked about what avenues I might have, where I could work, what this would look like. She helped me put together my resume. At the end of that, I sent out a couple of different applications to a couple of different offices. The job offer that I accepted was the Center for Safety and Change in Rockland County, where we help women, children, and some men, with getting orders of protection when they're survivors of domestic violence. We help undocumented immigrants find pathways to citizenship, especially when they're victims of crimes. We help with custody orders, visitation, divorce, different types of family law, and immigration law. It's great. Work to help people that don't have voices. I'm passionate about social justice. Two very large groups that are often oppressed are immigrants and women. Especially women of color. So to be able to have those two demographics, to be able to represent those two demographics, is exactly what I would want to have done out of law school. So to be able to be presented with that opportunity right away, was awesome.

Miguel Sanchez : 28:01

in your experience at the, Bronx Defenders and, now at the Center for Safety and Change what has been the most challenging aspect of doing social justice work.

Miguel Lluesma: 28:11

The most challenging aspect, I would say, is I'm trying. I don't want to get too deep into the legalities of the systemic oppression that we see going on. But basically, the legal systems that are set up. There are a lot of barriers that exist, especially for people of color. For immigrants, it's not easy. And just a plain example is even having access to an attorney. Attorneys are expensive, So it's really not easy to get an attorney. And everyone, when you go into a courtroom, desperately needs an attorney. Thankfully, there are some ways that people, can, Get an attorney that, you know, there's pro bono work that's provided Also in Rockland County, we have something called an 18 B panel where attorneys that, are paid for by the county and they represent people who, are under a certain income level that wouldn't be able to afford an attorney otherwise. I would say that that's probably one of the biggest barriers just to be able to get proper representation. There are a lot of people who go to court that have a lot of money. They can afford to get, you know, the top, top attorney in New York City to represent them. And they get everything that they want in the courtroom. And then there are those who have absolutely nothing. They come to this country with, very minimal things. There are people who have been, working two jobs, nine to five, and then six to midnight with five kids and trying their best to survive in this world. They don't have time to find someone to represent them in whatever case they might be going on in. That's one huge barrier, one huge challenge that I see, which is why I wanted to do the pro bono work, why I wanted to work at a not for profit, because I wanted to be able to help people who, can't afford to get help and really need good attorneys. Thankfully there are a lot of good attorneys out there who do this kind of work. One of the other biggest challenges, at least for me personally, and from my transition from the Bronx defenders to the center for safety and change was being on one side of the law and then the other. So at the public defender's office, I was representing people that were allegedly accused of certain types of crimes. I was defending them trying to figure out ways for them to face, minimal jail time, to, make sure that, justice was fair for them. I believe that, if someone commits a crime, you know, there should be a punishment, but then we have to have a conversation about what a fair punishment is. So that was one of the reasons why I wanted to be at the Bronx Defender's Office. Then transitioning to The Center for Safety and Change where you're on the other side of the aisle. Now, you're usually doing, orders of protection for people that are victims of crimes. So the people that I was defending now I'm going up, against. That was a challenge for me. I still have a heart for both. There are a lot of people who think that, if you commit a crime or if you're guilty of something you don't deserve representation and you should just go straight to jail and, throw away the key. That's not the way our constitution was set up. That's not justice. That's not fair. So I have a heart. for working at public defender's office, but at the same time, I also have a heart for working for people that are victims of domestic violence and sexual assault and many other types of crimes. You want them to be heard. You want them to get justice as well. Finding that balance is a challenge in and of itself.

Miguel Sanchez : 31:29

I want to go back to the bar exam And this will be our last section of today's episode. Preparing for the LSAT brings its challenges as you discussed. going to law school has its set of challenges. How was it like studying and taking the bar exam

Miguel Lluesma: 31:53

I'm gonna need therapy after this session because bringing up a traumatic experience. I say that lightly, but also somewhat serious. It was horrible. When I say it was horrible. And a traumatic experience. I don't want to scare people away. And I don't want people to think that it's impossible. Because it's not at the end of the day, there are thousands of attorneys in this country. While it is, a profession that, really tries to keep it small, there are a lot of people that pass the bar exam It's not impossible. You can do it for me It was very difficult. It was also a very difficult time. There were a couple of things that happened in my personal life, there were some trials that were going on. And then on top of that, I'm studying for the bar exam. You're studying day and night, seven days a week, nonstop. You are in this period of loneliness. There are very few people that can understand. what you're going through when you're taking the bar exam. It's also difficult if you're married or have children or have someone that depends on you or maybe you depend on that person. It is very difficult on them as well. There were times where, I took the bar exam in February, which means I was studying during Christmas, Christmas Eve, New Year's Eve, New Year's. I had to step away and say, hey, thanks for dinner. But I have to go study for the next two or three hours. It is not easy. It's not easy for them too, because you're not there. If you have small children, little Johnny has a basketball game, but you have to study for the bar exam. I had, one professor tell us a story about how her sister scheduled her wedding The day before the bar exam, and she was supposed to be the maid of honor, and she told her sister. I can't go. Now, the person that told us that said, you don't have to make the same sacrifices if you have to go to a wedding, go to a wedding. If you have to celebrate Christmas, celebrate Christmas, but make sure you supplement that time, with more studying time in one of those other days. This professor that told us that story said that for her, she needed to study that day. Otherwise she wouldn't have passed. You have to be mindful of your schedule. You have to be mindful of what's going on at that time of life. You're going to be missing things. But it is worth it. And like I said, it's not impossible. The exam day was terrible. I got a parking ticket outside of, the armory in New York City because I parked in front of a fire hydrant. I thought I failed and most people that took that exam thought they failed. When all of the law students were walking into the building to take the exam, we were all nervous, but kind of excited talking. At lunchtime, we were chatting a bit. By the time we left that exam, the final day, there was nothing but Silence. I've never heard anywhere in New York City as quiet as the final hour of that bar exam. The mood was different. Everybody was just like, what the heck just happened? It feels like you got hit by a truck. I think I slept for 16 hours straight the next day. I went to bed and didn't wake up. I got 8 hours of sleep, woke up for maybe 30 minutes, had something to eat, went right back to sleep for another 8 hours. It was such a mentally, physically, and I would even say emotionally and spiritually draining. When I found out that I passed the bar exam, I was overcome with joy. So much pressure was lifted. I did cry because I was like, This is crazy. I thought I failed. I ended up passing. But it was extremely encouraging, to say I passed the bar exam. This is a big deal, especially for someone like me, who never did that well in school. To have this accomplishment was huge and to be able to share it with friends, family, people in the church I knew were praying for me, was really awesome. It was even more, joyful for me to be able to know. All right, that's out of the way Now it's time to get to real work. I'm excited to be here. I'm thankful for all of the opportunities that god continues to give me Like I said at the beginning of the podcast I told him to open the doors and I would run through them And he's still opening the doors and i'm still running through each and every day I wouldn't have been able to do this without the support of my community my family I'm a first generation law student, so I didn't have some of the resources that others had, to have, like I said, my church community, my wife, my parents, my friends, was crucial. So if you're a first generation law student listening, today, find that support system, tap in each and every day. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to go up to your law professor and ask them for help. They want to help you. They'll seem scary on day one. But that's not really them. law professors are human beings who had to go through a first year of law school, had to take the LSAT, had to take the bar exam, had to get admitted and then had to go to that first job interview. So, be encouraged, and just, Open those doors and keep running through them.

Miguel Sanchez : 36:51

I Don't think there's any, better way to end, Thank you for sharing your experience as a first gen law student. Miguel just gave us so many tips and so much advice that is worth, re watching or sharing with anyone else who is thinking about law school. That being said, thank you, Miguel.

Miguel Lluesma: 37:09

Thanks for having me.

Miguel Sanchez : 37:10

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